Agreed. I am 120+ on most games, while on penta melody I am at 15. It very quickly has nothing to do with musicality, and comes down to memory of rapid noises. If more note choices were given and less fast unmusical phrases were given I would enjoy it. As it is, it is basically simon on a guitar fretboard with little relation to music.

@Catherine McKay getting to level 17 is amazing!!!💪

I am also on level 16 for weeks 😅. But I think it is still a solid exercise. It would be awesome to play this game with actual guitar - maybe someday?

15, 16, 17... I can't get past level 7 for a month 😅My memory is crap, especially if I need to remember something quickly.

And just like that finally leveled up 😂. Penta Gods probably acknowledged that I didn't thrash talk the game too much. @Igor Ishchenko keep at it! Me and Benjamin are ToneGym veterans and believe me, there are much more frustrating memory games. Just keep grinding and don't skip it even if if feels boring or tedious.

@Petr Hartmann oh I know about tonegym. Rhythmic Parrot and Melody Hunter give me the same troubles :)

@Igor Ishchenko Rhythmic Parrot is the bane of my existence. I am at level 50 and I will stay level 50 till the end of days.

@Petr Hartmann I also passed a level in penta melody today for the first time in over a week.😉

I have never had a chance to be annoyed by toneGym melody/rhythm games, I am a free member. However I play melody playground often and am sort of annoyed, but also slightly enjoy it, and I was hoping Penta melody would be more a guitar version of melody playground, with interval knowledge being more important than a lightning fast memory. (sort of)

Well look at that. Our collective whining opened the gates!

Hi!!, Im level 20, but I get there and I dont know how hahahaha, It is just a matter of practice, and Im agree that it can be change for something more melodic and less random.

I think the call for the memory games to be more musical is a trap. Musicality is very much what you make of it, and to say that these sequences are too random is in other words not to have the entire context for the music in which it might make sense – yet. But I posit that you're thinking too hard about memorization when you should also be considering pattern recognition as a primary musical function of memorization.

You see this a lot in the discourse about Rhythm Parrot on TG, and as a drummer it saddens me to see so many people give up on it. But shouldn't we as musicians strive to see complexity in the simple, and simplicity in the complex? It's all in the patterns. We've all experienced what it's like when we form that newest connection in our minds and understand everything related to it more wholly. But with the memory games there is so much resistance.

Pattern recognition is a crucial aspect of our art-form, and it is very much worth striving to develop it further! Learning passes from solos and such will only become easier. I encourage everyone to continue giving it there all at the memory games here or in the other gyms, but there are potentially exercises or projects like transcriptions that you can work on that will help in developing this.

Now with that said, I'm only at 22 just yet, but haven't found it much difficult so far. I think I almost got to thirty before the testing finished. However a lot of this perspective comes from the Rhythm Parrot discourse and I think despite the focus of the games being different it's hopefully still a salient point.

🫣

@Jonny Levin

@Nicolae Orengo that's an interesting take! I will explore it and let you know if it worked - sounds good enough to give it a try! I was trying to memorize the melody and since it's never musical in this workout, I had a hard time - as if I were trying to remember 15 digits in binary or hex code or something like that. I'll try to look at it as a pattern rather than sound. I'm only asking myself what could be the benefit of this kind of training for a musician? Speaking of Rhythm Parrot, where I'm something like 60ish (not being a drummer), I can perfectly see the value of this training. Anyway, making a connection between the two is, again, an interesting take that I'm gonna look into. If it helps me to get to lev 16, I'll definitely brag about it. Cheers!

I agree with @Nicolae Orengo on his way of understanding the value Penta and Parrot hold for users. Here I'm still struggling way more on 'counting' frets and jumping from one string to adjacent ones than with my ability to remember each melody. These have a quite fair balance between randomness and musicality IMO. In terms of musicality (and also true value for learning) ToneGym's Melodix is the absolute worst experience I've faced so far. It's so 'underused' considering its possibilities...

@Nicolae Orengo after our last discussion on TG I unblocked Rhytm Parrot in my dailies 😅. No remarkable progress yet but at least I am able to solve at least couple of samples each sesion. So despite I don't enjoy the game I will keep trying 💪.

One last think I'd like to add. Penta Melody would be much more doable if the time limit wasn't so tight. But then again it forces you this way to get it right on the first go, without repetition, without slowing down. It hurts but the 'gains' might be well worth it.

In my opinion, it would be much better if the increase in difficulty was not in the amount of notes to be remembered, but rather the complexity of intervals. I am trying the pattern approach but the exercise still seems to me something like repeat: 1331353555331555335531. It almost feels mean LOL. And I like Rhythm Parrot :).

Yes, @Petr Hartmann , time limit is probably my own worst enemy, and it's part of GG's method... 😕 I need to understand what I'm doing and why if I want to effectively learn something complex. Time limit forces me to play by intuition, and that's definitely another skill to develop, but not for me at early stages...

@Bartosz Samitowski i agree, after about 12 notes in 4 seconds all 4ths or thirds, it feels very LOL...
however @Petr Hartmann I agree that the gains could be great!

But on the time limit note, I really do not like fretmaster, I am currently at level 149 were I have to recognize each note in 2.307 sec. even if I get them all right, I often have one or two questions left. I think I would learn better I had 2 minutes and 40 questions, as that would force me to increase fretboard recognition speeds, not just mouse accuracy also Fretmaster REALLY needs keyboard shortcuts...@GuitarGym Community

*I love fretmaster, I just do not like the time limit with little time and questions.

Yeah I agree, I feel like every time I have Penta Melody on my daily workout, I can never really get through more than 3 questions just because it's difficult to remember all what's going on. BUT I believe that there has to be some kind of benefit to it, just one you don't think about as much...

Thank you all for the feedback, we appreciate it. We have made a number of changes to the game that include improving the rhythmic playing of the melodies, several problematic difficulty levels and the way the timer works.

The timer stopping while the melody plays is a nice improvement: before that, I've had to replay a fair amount of levels with easy melodies in which time (along with mouse skills) seemed to be a brickwall. However, I've been stuck on level 69 for a week, and the only noticeable change is that now I lose my 3rd life with more seconds left in the timer...😁

I think of this game as an eat your vegetables game. You hate them as a kid, but they're actually good for you. I haven't liked this game either, but I'll do it when forced to. I hope the recent changes have added some tasty spices to the vegetables.

😄Nice analogy, @Thomas Folks !

@Thomas Folks what are the recent changes in Penta Melody? And how is it good for me, please tell me, I really want to know and understand 🍆🍆🍆.

Sorry, I just read the whole thread. Thank you for your work @GuitarGym Community - much appreciated and it's definitely the first place I'm going to check today 😀.

Feedback after checking. It did improve, and I appreciate much that you listen to your users! However, I'm afraid I'm still not going to like it unless more balance is introduced into the difficulty level. Level 18 here and can't get past it. I can't see the point of memorizing as many complicated melodies in a minute as I can. No matter how much I try, I can't even get one, except if I'm lucky or come across in one that is considerably easier or more musical than others. Perhaps some people have a better brain for short memory of this kind of structures - my respects. In its current form, for me, it's like an arcade game that I can't follow. In real life, I do have the capacity of memorizing relatively complicated works including counterpoint, upper structures etc. Have played guitar for 30 years now. I appreciate and see the point of every other routine both in GuitarGym, Tonegym and Soundgym and see how all of them strengthen my skills. I learn a lot thanks to your portals. But for me, this workout seems to be beyond a normal level of struggle needed to improve and how it is now makes me want to skip it or just wait it thorough.

dude, there's nothing wrong with just not being immediately good at something. There's no need to tell us you can do all these much more difficult things, believe me guys. Relax. This is a place to practice and get better. And I say it with love man, if you could do all those things you say, and you've been playing for 30 years, these exercises SHOULD be a piece of cake for you. Because they are ESSENTIAL. So either you suck major ass, or maybe just need a little practice man. The final goal of this site is to make you a better guitar player, not impress some guitar nerds. And again, I say this with love, I couldn't find any video on your profile in which you remotely play something comprehensible with a guitar.

tl;dr
stop whining, START GRINDING

@Claudia Toro

I noticed the exercise became easier, more musical and more realistic in the last days. Which makes me glad! After my initial post, I noticed with a surprise, that when I was on level 15 or 16, the stats said I was in the top 3% scores. It looked like this exercise used to bring a lot of trouble to many people here. The reason for my post was not to grumble, but out of care - to share feedback as an Alpha tester. I really do appreciate the portals a lot - and how they help me to work on my weak spots. Discipline and resilience are essential to being a musician, but the challenge must be balanced. Again, I appreciate @GuitarGym Community for your reaction, as well as those who responded to this thread in a respectful and useful way. Now, off to my veggies 😺.

Well, you've had a group of GG members discussing about the problem you laid on the table, which has led to know one another a little better, and made @GuitarGym Community to notice there was some issues related to it... So I'd say that's a good result, isn't it? And the game's difficulty has dropped quite a bit! 👍

@Claudia Toro The reason that some people were commenting on how hard Penta melody had been was because its level of difficulty was extremely different in comparison to the other games. For example, I was on level 100+ on almost all the other games and only level 16 on Penta melody. Penta melody used to be much harder and less musical i.e. three notes being Simon style melodies and not a paused timer while it plays. Based on my experience in GuitarGym, the first 50ish levels of each game are the more easy fundamentals, and Penta melody did not fit this.

I am not saying that these games should not be hard in the later levels (they need to be) but if you cannot even pass the first few levels as a competent musician, a new musician definitely will struggle and maybe just not try the game any more. All of us are (hopefully) here to learn, if we already knew everything, than there is no need to do GuitarGym. The reason that a more gradual increase in hardness is important is that it allows for better teaching and a feeling of progress.

@Benjamin Jack well said

Follow-up: I do enjoy the current state of Penta Melody and find it useful for where I am. Now it's less about memorizing series of notes and the aspect of visualizing intervals on the fretboard is more pronounced. Thus, IMO it may now also help to strengthen the skill of spontaneous play better. The melodies are also less machine-like and a bit more realistic (at Lev 40 now). Cool development.

I feel exactly the same, @Bartosz Samitowski .
The same you're feeling NOW, not the same I've always felt, as if nothing had changed for me even though some changes have been certainly made.

😆😁

I also agree. I am still stuck on the 10th level, but now I feel that it's because I suck at it, not because it doesn't make sense.

Penta Melody is my favourite game

@Miles Walker after the changes have been made, mine too!

@Catherine McKay I still think stats is broken,

I am the only person ever on GuitarGym to have a diamond pick, and somehow I only have a higher GPI than 98.4% of users. And last week when I had 5000 less GPI I was at 98.5%.

Also I am at level 567 at chord maze and am only at 98.78% for that one. I have a ticket open but have had no response as of today (8-19)

Stats is finally fixed!

@Benjamin Jack Level 54 - 98.78%. Can it be? 👀

After Stats was fixed I now am 100% in both chord games, it could be, you are among the top 10 GuitarGymers GPI-wise!

@Benjamin Jack Still sceptical.

@Benjamin Jack hey if 'level 567 at chord maze' is not a typo I have to admit you are a beast and deserve that diamond 100% percentile 😅 Congrats and wow! Care to share some tips & tricks with us regular users? I am slowly aproaching my plateaus... Too many shapes to remember, too strict time limit... But I'll keep on grinding of course.

@Petr Hartmann
Not a typo😉

For chord maze, once you hit the 6/6min chords I recommend playing it a bunch of times where you do not try to make the correct answers, instead screenshot/record the game than make a cheat sheet. I could share mine, but the practice of making it was what I needed, not the cheat sheet itself.
As a bit of encouragement, once you pass about level 200ish (I cannot remember exactly) it does not get harder so if you can get there you will be diamond.

Also I recommend extended sessions on specific games every few days instead of playing for a short time. (Along with play each game once to keep your streak) At least my mind works better if I can just focus on it for a while. Remember, your progress will not be linear, some levels are considerably harder than the ones after it. Sometimes I try 100 times to pass one level, and than for the next 30 after it I pass in one to two tries.

As to time limits I recommend alternating doing one run were you try to go as fast as you can and one run were you try to get every answer right. Beating the time for me seems to be a matter of focus, I do much better if I just ignore the timer and answer as fast as I can.

I also cannot underemphasize the necessity of hands on practice, for me it seems to bridge the gap between what I know and and I am proficient at.

Happy Practicing!

Good advice, @Benjamin Jack ! I'm definitely going to try the 'cheatsheet method' for Chord Maze and maybe also for some levels of Chorductor... Writing and/or drawing has always worked for me when I had to memorize anything, but I've been a bit lazy lately.

@Benjamin Jack thanks! One more question if I may. How did you approach these games? Meaning have you tried to imprint chord shapes to your mind visually (literally like 'geometric shape') or was your approch more analytical like alright, dim Major 7 consists of m3, d5, M7 - so relative to the root my fingers go here an there? Or something else entirely? I am using the first approach on guitar, the second on piano. And despite I am far more proficient with my guitar, I can probably play more chords on piano.

@Petr Hartmann What I ended up doing was learning the CAGED shapes, and than I learned the Root, Maj3, P5, etc. through chorductor. I can then flat the 3rd to make a minor chord, flat one of the roots to make 7 chords, sharp one of the roots to make add9, etc. So If I want a C#min7 I go to the third fret to C in the A shape flat the third, flat the root by 2 semitones, and than transpose the entire thing up one fret to make it #.

There are a few chords that I learned by brute force, 6,min6, some of the 7/min7/maj7minMaj7 and all of the dim/half-dim7. These levels are where I made the cheat sheet I was talking about. However most of these chords have little practical application other than getting diamond pick, I do not know if I will ever need to play them. But if I ever need to, I can.

One think to keep in mind for naming chords in chord maze is if you remember the root of the chord shape, the note on the fretboard is the note of the chord. (seems like a duh, but for naming the harder chords it is really helpful)